Building a dedicated Multiforcer box

General discussion of GPU hardware and software
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Re: Building a dedicated Multiforcer box

Postby Bitweasil » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:58 pm

Jazsun wrote:Thanks bitweasel. I think as of now, all we really need is NTLM, LM (maybe), and MD5 (BSD) for most of the things we do. The stats I posted above are some test speeds a coworker provided me from John the Ripper.


NTLM is supported, and I'm planning on working on LM this weekend. :) I may also whip up a BSD MD5CRYPT for fun. No promises on speed, though.
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Re: Building a dedicated Multiforcer box

Postby tip » Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:35 pm

I'm interested in building a dedicate box too! I can't decide will I buy 2x GTX470 or some FPGA processor card like E-101 from picocomputing based on Xylinx Spartan-6 LX45 device! Whether someone knows what is better of this for multiforcer,pyrit and rainbow tables generating/using???
Does anyone have experience with CUDA AND FPGA? Some kind of benchmark FPGA vs. CUDA will be helpfull.
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Re: Building a dedicated Multiforcer box

Postby Bitweasil » Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:44 pm

tip wrote:I'm interested in building a dedicate box too! I can't decide will I buy 2x GTX470 or some FPGA processor card like E-101 from picocomputing based on Xylinx Spartan-6 LX45 device! Whether someone knows what is better of this for multiforcer,pyrit and rainbow tables generating/using???
Does anyone have experience with CUDA AND FPGA? Some kind of benchmark FPGA vs. CUDA will be helpfull.


Well, a very important question would be, "Do the tools you want to use exist for FPGAs?"

FPGAs are typically much better in performance per watt right now, but a bit slower, more expensive, and a royal pain to program.

I currently have no plans to support FPGAs. Throw me ten thousand dollars and I might be motivated to update my tools for them, but right now, I have no plans to support them, and I don't believe many other tools have this support either.

So that would make the 470s a better option. Why not go with GTX580s, though? They perform significantly better.
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Re: Building a dedicated Multiforcer box

Postby tip » Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:12 pm

FPGA isn't soo expensive! PICO E-101 costs like 2x GTX470!
I wish to have little more power so I thinking to buy PICO E-16 (1344 € / 1775 $ ) or build dedicated box (motherboard + memory + HDD + PSU + CPU... + 3x GTX470 (3x GTX270 = 3x 217 € = 651€ / 860$). But it is nearly equal price for PICO-E-16 and dedicated box. For FPGA exist some similar programs but I will be happy to see results of comparing CUDA vs. FPGA with same price. Anyone??? For now dedicated box with 3x 470 is my favorite.
I'm read yours post earlier "...Don't get the 460s. They are a different core that is difficult to extract CUDA performance from..." and you advises GTX470 as better choice. So I'm decide to buy 470! But on http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=168551 a lot of people complaining about the freezing that card after login! What do you think about it?
Another question: How is important number of full pcie x16 slots? How much would be better motherboard with x16 x16 x16 over x16 x16 x8?
Do you have any advice for CPU,motherboard...? (at a reasonable price :) )
Sorry for my bad English :oops:
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Re: Building a dedicated Multiforcer box

Postby Bitweasil » Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:32 pm

x16 vs x8 doesn't make a big difference for brute forcing/etc. There's just not that much bus traffic.

I still question what commonly supported software you intend to use for FPGAs. To the best of my knowledge, there's not that much out there.

Having the hardware is great, but if you don't have software tools that do what you want, it's useless. If there are software tools, great. If not, I'd be happy to write some (I do know VHDL), but I don't have the time currently allocated for that.
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Re: Building a dedicated Multiforcer box

Postby tip » Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:45 pm

OpenCiphers http://openciphers.sourceforge.net/oc/download.php support FPGA platfor and BT3 and BT4 have support for FPGA!
But I decided for SCUDA :D
Thanks about x16 and x8... I thought the same but http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?show ... p=1124000& confused me :)
What is your advice about CPU,memory... ???
Thank a lot!!!
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Re: Building a dedicated Multiforcer box

Postby Bitweasil » Sat Dec 18, 2010 5:47 pm

For password cracking, x8 vs x16 doesn't really matter. The bandwidth used is so low that there is no significant difference.

As for CPU and RAM, for a multiforcer box, right now, ideally one core per GPU is good. Down the road, when I get around to SSE2 support, more CPU cores will help. RAM doesn't matter too much - I'd suggest 4GB, but it's not a big deal. For the GPU rainbow tables, more RAM is definitely better - you can improve speed of lookups significantly with excess RAM.
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